Swan Song

Swan Song

First he was very famous, now he's very rich. But Nassim Taleb is still wrong.

Photograph by Carsten Koall/Getty Images.

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The trouble with Talib's strategy

Taleb's strategy is reasonably obvious, which he admits. He buys options that are way out of the money and hopes for volatility. His theory, which someone needs to run the data to check, is that options far out of the money are significantly underpriced. The players who price options based on a normal (Gaussian) distribution based on the Black-Scholes model of market behavior will, Taleb claims, systematically underprice options far out on the curve. His strategy exploits this. Whether that's a correct analysis is tough to check, because you have to look at decades of data to see enough outlier events, i.e. big crashes. As Talib admits, his funds bleed in boring years, then make money during crashes. There's another problem. If you buy options that are way out of the money at a low price, can your counterparty pay up if the unlikely event happens? The AIG fiasco, the CDO market collapse, and further back,"portfolio insurance", indicates that the answer is sometimes "no".

He's got a point

I haven't read “The Black Swan” but from the discussion it is clear that the book is about"The Impact of the Highly Improbable." When everyone else's fortunes have shrunk, Taleb's have risen. The Wall Street Journal report also showed that Universa, a hedge fund for which Taleb serves as guru and adviser, gained more than 100 percent last year and now holds $6 billion. This proves that he has got a point here.

Needed info

Enjoyed reading your piece on Taleb. While I'm a big fan of his books (which are more philosophy books than anything) and generally subscribe to his views, it's always good to hear the other side. The question left unanswered by your piece, however, is just how badly did he do in the down years? If he went up 60 percent in 2000 and 100 percent just last year then he could theoretically have decades of small declines and still be well ahead of the historical average. He has always described his strategy as being willing to lose pennies at a time. I would guess since he shuttered the first hedge fund that the losses were pretty bad (maybe dimes and quarters), but still, it would have helped to know. Is that data not public? Is there not an investor available to leak a few reports?

Bleed or Blowup

Here is Taleb's academic article on the idea behind his trading strat. http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/bleedblowup.pdf Mr. Gimein seems not to be able to understand this simple concept very well. But I think Taleb could run the risk of being a victim of his own theory, in that the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Got to gamble somehow though.

Real life

The subject of Taleb is simple: real life can't be modelled. Suckers think it can. Don't be a sucker. In other news, registering for this site is like trying to crack a Defense Dept computer. It's only a blog. Get over yourself.

nassim

Nassim is famous because he cloaks intent with a veil of plausible deniability. He not only provides an alibi for those who profited, but his concept of randomness makes victims more likely to give up and not look too hard for answers.

Envy

It sounds like envy to me.... Taleb was not outstanding during the "normal" periods of market activity, nor was I. My returns prior to 1987, 2000 and 2008 were somewhat average. Not a shining star and many times ridiculed and scorned by many of my peers. I even had a few of my clients whom I was advising drop me in and guess what, they went with Madoff. Imagine that...... after all the money I made for them during the dot-com bust, they called me an idiot and took their money to a genius. I am happy for them. The message that NNT sends is..... "Go ahead and cross the quiet intersection, just don't do it with a blind fold on..." Pretty simple stuff, if you ask me, quite similar to the advice that my grandmother would give... Best regards, Econolicious

A testable proposition

I haven't read Taleb and I thank all the prior commentators whose expositions helped me understand the issues better.

But in the end, I wonder, hasn't anybody tested Taleb's claims vs Gemein's criticism by empirical test? If Taleb's wins and losses were converted into total return on investment over a 30 year period, would he beat or miss the returns on a market index fund?

No, you're wrong actually

I have read the article and the Black Swan book and I really do not understand Mr Gimein's argument. How you can refer to someone who not only survived but flourished during the three biggest market crashes of our generation as "wrong" is quite simply beyond me. What does it matter if he had indifferent performance during the "in-between" years when the times he got it right he got it so massively right that he could retire instantly?! Ask the average investor whether they would like to make "$35-40 million" and then have ten or fifteen years "without much success" investment wise I think they would take it. The point that the author of this article seems to miss and is a central tenet of the Black Swan philosophy is that failure is a necessary component to benefiting from these unusual, "asymmetric outcomes" that NNT has succeeded in benefiting from not once, not twice but 3 times (!) in 20 years. Do you think he might be on to something?! And while the investment advice is limited in the Black Swan (it doesn't claim to be an investment book anyway) it does lay out the central idea of keeping around 80% of your assets in safe/conservative investments, while spreading the other 20% across the riskiest investments you can find, namely private equity that can provide a huge return on a relatively small initial investment.

The main point of the book however is to simply raise the reader's conscientiousness in all walks of life, from how you gauge investment risk, to what you choose to do for a living, to how you think about terrorist attacks or work projects. It teaches you not to put your trust in the hands of the so-called "experts" with their fancy models that got us into this mess in the first place.

Mr. Gimein seems not to be

Mr. Gimein seems not to be able to understand this simple concept very well. But I think Taleb could run the risk of being a victim of his own theory - date ideas for Moz-invest

portfolio aspect

I think what is missing from this article and the analysis of this strategy is that it is not meant to be a stand alone wealth maximization strategy. Nassim would not tell you to invest all of your money in these entities. I think what he would tell you is that, these strategies can work extremely well as a hedge against the majority of hedge fund strategies that either explicitly or implicitly are selling the convexity that he is acquiring. That said, as volatilities are at historically high levels, perhaps it's better to enter the strategy in a lower vol environment. In essence, that is all he is doing..... he is going long volatility, particularly the wings.

Mark, you really missed the point

"As Taleb points out, we notice the ones who do well a lot more because those who do badly simply drop out of sight. So it is also with predictions of disaster: We mostly get to hear about the few times that they turn out to be right."

Dear Mark,

Reading your last sentence says it all about you totally missing the point on Taleb. If you had studied carefully Taleb's Fooled by Randomness you would have known that he DOES NOT make any predictions. He is totally against those making predictions. He laughs at them. To simply put it, he makes a skewed bet, a bet whose pay-off is positive: loses a little most of the time, but when it makes money it recovers the previos losses and remains with a profit. AND THAT IS BECAUSE US HUMANS DO NOT PRICE CORRECTLY THE CHANCES OF THE RARE EVENT OCCURING. IT IS OUR NATURE.

Mark, you really need to revisit your opinions and most of all, read carefully Talebs Fooled by Randomness. I am sure you will catch the point eventually. It's a real shame to make Taleb wrong when you do not understand what he says.

let me be blunt

did you read the black swan? on page 96 of the hardcover edition is subheading titled BLEED OR BLOWUP. in this part of the chapter, his fictional character nero goes on to explain his trading style:

"His premise was the following trivial point: some business bets in which one wins big but infrequently, yet loses small but frequently, are worth making if others are suckers for them and if you have the personal and intellectual stamina...a strategy he called 'bleed.' You lose steadily, daily, for a long time, except when some event takes place for which you get paid disproportionately well. No single event can make you blow up [that is lose more than you considered possible], on the other hand—some changes in the world can produce extraordinarily large profits that pay back such bleed for years, sometimes decades, sometimes even centuries." [emphasis his] p. 97

what, mr. gimein, is the title of the chapter? LIVING IN THE ANTECHAMBER OF HOPE, of course. and what could that possibly be about? it's probably not about the character drogo from THE TARTAR STEPPE, who becomes "inebriated" by the hope of being a hero in a battle against the tartars at the edge of the desert—a desert no one has crossed. drogo spends his entire life putting his return to society on hold:

"At the end of the novel we see Drogo dying in a roadside inn as the event for which he has waited all his life takes place. He has missed it." p. 93

and the next subheading THE SWEET TRAP OF ANTICIPATION:

"I presented the Black Swan as the outlier, the important event that is not expected to happen. But consider the opposite: the unexpected event that you very badly want to happen. Drogo is obsessed and blinded by the possibility of an unlikely even; that rare occurrence is his raison d'être." [emphasis his] p. 93

now to quote you:

"In his books Taleb presents a wealth of examples of how prone we are to discount the unexpected and unlikely, but what is notably missing from The Black Swan are examples of just how likely we are to overestimate the chances of unlikely events when they are presented to us under a spotlight. Taleb is, of course, right that we fail to anticipate what we are not looking for. But we also overanticipate when we are looking too hard for the outliers. Lottery players overvalue their chances of winning $10 million, and horse bettors put too much money on 100-1 long shots. People who watch the local news too avidly believe there is a child kidnapper around every corner, and followers of Taleb assume that every time they pass a dark alley, catastrophe is about to pop out with a bloody knife." [bold mine, of course]

now let me ask again: DID YOU READ THE BLACK SWAN?

what was that...is that pie on your face...bet you didn't expect that!

journalistic integrity rating: 0

Taleb's full of it

Reading The Black Swan made me so angry. Taleb's assault on the discipline of mathematics was self-aggrandizing and completely wrong. Statistics is always about chance, never about certainty. Statisticians look at samples and populations for different types of distributional patterns. There's statistical tests based on the Gaussian curve, but there are also rich subfields in methodologies to deal with populations with higher degrees heteroskedasticity (structure in the error term). These subfields are uniquely suited for modeling populations and events that tend to have a good deal of outliers.

The financial industry ran into trouble not because the math was wrong, but because the people in charge didn't understand the math. But, Taleb has a sexier argument if he can blame a highly sophisticated academic discipline. I think that's called throwing the baby out with the bath water . . . .

I thought he was pretty fair

I thought he was pretty fair with mathematics, stressing the trade offs between what can be rigorously proven and what is actually true in the markets. How many math questions talk about interest rates as if they are constant, i.e. if John puts x dollars into the bank at r percent for 30 years how much will he have to retire? Now pick up a graph of bank rates for the last 30 years.

In math finance the Black Scholes pricing model taught to MBA's assumes no jumps, if you take a PhD bounded jumps are introduced for the martingale calculus. How big are the jumps in reality nobody knows. There has been an exponential explosion in the number of math finance PhD programs always with the selling point of being applied and tied to the Wall Street. One should expect that the deep theorems proved in this area have assumptions which hold in the real world are not just in an academic journal. One doesn't see airplane engineers saying their designs would be correct mathematically if air resistance didn't exist.

One of Taleb's main points is in fact that the word 'outlier' is itself a bad idea and one has no idea if the 'outliers' are actually the interesting part of a data set. In this respect he is just repeating ET Jaynes who argued against filtering data to a model. Certainly for agronomy, psychology, insurance etc. traditional statistics work well, but increasingly complicated systems first need to be understood qualitatively before quantitatively.

Mathematics and Statistics

I was hoping to see an actual argument against Taleb's idea expounded in The Black Swan. Instead, all I get is some idea about how since others can make money, maybe he is wrong. Ridiculous.

Here's a better question Mark. Is Benoit Mandelbrot wrong? Talk to some mathematicians and statisticians who are actually grappling with figuring out the truth of things and not making money about the ideas of Godel and the like. Then get back to us people trying to figure things out as opposed to those who only want to give their bosses a number they will like.

I expect a defense of Gaussian-like distributions will be the next thing posted here.

Sheer idiocy

You're right to be embarassed to be arguing against Nasim Taleb. His primary argument is that unexpected/catastrophic events (like the 1987 crash, the Dot-com crash and the 2008 crash) are far more common that most people think. A cool $10M to $30M every decade or so? Not bad in my book. How is your portfolio looking these days? Similar? I didn't think so.

It is about the Risk

Nassim Taleb's advice sounds like that reported from Peter L. Bernstein in his WSJ obit this weekend: "He counseled investors to take big risks with small amounts of money rather than small risks with big amounts of money. The same focus on the consequences of error was one of the main themes of "Against the Gods," which he published more than a quarter-century later. Also in 1970, Mr. Bernstein wrote: "We simply do not know what the future holds." Over the ensuing decades, he returned again and again to that phrase in his speeches, articles and books, because he felt it captured the central truth about investing." Nassim Taleb was not the first with these ideas about how to deal with market risk, but he did try to alert people to what he saw .

I read The Black Swan in 2007, but I did not truly understand the risk. My portfolio was small, so proportionally, my losses were small. I held on too long. I do have a bit more understanding now and I'm only 62.

As I see it, Taleb's strategy could work for him because there was so much risk that the market brains did not understand or seem to care about, that he couldn't miss. Hundreds of deer cross a road every night. There's a road kill every few months. Taleb could make small bets on market failure for years and have a high probability that he would win.

Small players can't do that very effectively. If you use a 7% figure with $10,000 you are betting big with just $700; or $7,000 on $100,000. It is very conservative. One has to save hard to get to these levels. In the U.S., saving has not been rewarded for decades, so people have been taking more and more risk, mostly unknowingly.

Financial system manipulation has been described as favoring borrowers and speculators over savers. Savers were forced into the stock market by the 401K and IRA legislation. Compounded returns of 7% or more a year would make us all rich. The competition for assets certainly inflated the market values and somehow lowered interest rates too. That wealth disappeared and reappeared several times, thanks to cheap money fixes.

The Stock Market crash was not a Black Swan to those who could understand the fragility of the debt relationships. We little people are not able to see these risks, even when told by people like Nassim Taleb, Peter Schiff or Bill Bonner. None got it totally right, but all saw something coming.

Boom psychology sweeps the herd along. Those that resist are ridiculed. The smugness of the herd and the herders is hard to deal with, particularly when even idiots are making money. It seems there's no other game in town.

Now the market is bi-polar market, swinging up and down. Buy and hold investing appears futile. There is only trading and it is too risky now. Some people will make money for sure. Some by luck, some by skill.

Roubini used the term "gambling for redemption" to explain the increased bets as the system got shakier. Some understand that the market is not a casino. There is no House that manages table play so payout risk doesn't break its bank. Redemption is perhaps a return to 1950's saving.

Taleb was right and is still right. The fact that some people will make money in the market does not make him wrong.

We the people will pay for the misallocation of capital through taxpayer funded programs, high fees relating to any financial service and probably inflation.

There will be other extreme events in the world. Humanity's resilience will be tested.

The savers who support the financial system should be protected from gamers. There's a slow food movement. I think a slow capitalism movement might make sense as well.

Fast money is too good to be true.